Home arrow Forum
Latest posts of: ken gettys
October 08, 2008, 03:26:40 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
  Home Help Search Login Register  
  Show Posts
Pages: [1]
1  Research / The Ribbon / Re: How do you get the 22000 mile long ribbon into space? on: May 02, 2008, 12:53:25 PM
It likely is not practical to send electricity up from the anchor ship.
The Earth Elevator Station (EAS) would not be a ship if located at the poles! It would be a large, moveable sled!  Smiley
2  Research / The Ribbon / Re: How do you get the 22000 mile long ribbon into space? on: May 01, 2008, 06:03:26 AM
I was thinking about putting a SES (Space Elevator Station) above the North and/or South poles and found this article in the New York Times referring to a "Statite":
(http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE6D91F3BF93BA35751C0A965958260)

Quote
The Statite would not orbit at all. Instead, it would be shot up over one of the poles, where it would stay in one relative place while the earth rotates below, just as if it were the North Star.

The spacecraft would maintain its position using solar "sails," a concept that has been kicked around since the 1950's. The sails would reflect photons and other cosmic particles that create minute pressure similar to that of the wind. At about 200,000 miles over the earth, this pressure would directly offset the earth's gravitational pull and keep the statite in an apparently fixed position.

1. So the question of how fast the SES moves (other than positon adjustments) becomes a question of how to link to a 200,000 mile high Statite/SES?

2. And why 200,000 miles? Isn't that just to achive full sunlight?

3. If power is provided thru the ribbon cable, the SES could be located at a much lower altitude of perhaps 1,000 miles (or even 100 miles)!

4. And if the ribbon weights 1 oz per linear foot, that's about 3200 lbs for 100 miles of ribbon. I think the space shuttle carries at least a ton and a half of payload!
3  Research / The Ribbon / Re: How do you get the 22000 mile long ribbon into space? on: April 30, 2008, 07:51:06 PM
The only sensible way to create the SE is from  GEO down.
You would deploy initially a very light cable both up and down from this point so that the orbit does not change.
You would progressively deploy thicker cable as you spooled out the cable so that the taper was produced.

Once the cable has been fully deployed to the ground you could start sending up climbers with the aim of adding additional fibres to the cable to strengthen it.

Can we also just state that GEO is at 22240 miles . I think some posters are getting mixed up and thinking it is 22000 feet which is totally wrong.
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geostationary_orbit

Geostationary orbits can be achieved only very close to the ring 35,786 km (22,236 mi) directly above the equator.

Also: Orbital velocity (how fast the satellite is moving through space) is calculated by multiplying the angular velocity by the orbital radius: 6,877 mph (see attachement or Wikipedia link for the full calculation).

And: The Earth rotates at about 1,100 mph at the equator and about 0 miles per hour at the poles.
 
4  Research / The Ribbon / Re: How do you get the 22000 mile long ribbon into space? on: April 30, 2008, 11:50:39 AM
5.   The second rocket would then lift another mile and so on until the ribbon reached the pre-launched SES (Space Elevator Station) or ISS.

You may wish to research the world record for height in a balloon.

Also remember the big problem is speed not height.
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/ValerieChang.shtml

Mracek, Anna. History of Balloon Flight. Washington University, St. Louis. "The highest altitude ever achieved by one such unmanned research balloon was 51,820m; this balloon was launched from Chico, California in 1972" 

That's about 32 miles up!
5  Research / The Ribbon / Re: How do you get the 22000 mile long ribbon into space? on: April 30, 2008, 09:57:01 AM
even at 1 oz per linear foot you are looking at over 7.25 million lbs to GEO! 

To put that in perspective that would require the equivalent of ~30 saturn V rockets!

to be even remotely realistic you would need to have the ribbon weight at less than .1 oz per linear foot to be able to launch it from earth.  Otherwise you would need to construct it in space at the counterweight/ribbon manufacturing satelite and would have to ferry up building materials to construct the tether.

Are there even any materials that are less than .1 oz per linear foot? with a 1cm diameter?
great day to you all

Ok, that’s, according to Andrew, 66,000 miles up for the SES (Space Elevator Station).

1.   Suppose we launch a small rocket from the top of the high altitude balloon.

2.   The rocket would have 320 lbs of ribbon that would start deploying upon liftoff.

3.   The rocket would climb 1 mile and remain there (having also lifted enough fuel) until another rocket/elevator could be lifted up the ribbon.

4.   As the second rocket reached the first, the first would fall away.

5.   The second rocket would then lift another mile and so on until the ribbon reached the pre-launched SES (Space Elevator Station) or ISS.

6.   Also each additional rocket could contain more and more ribbon and less fuel, as there would be less Earth gravity and atmosphere to resist.
6  Research / The Ribbon / Re: How do you get the 22000 mile long ribbon into space? on: April 23, 2008, 12:20:06 AM
Item 4: A_M_Swallow is correct. The only way to prevent the ISS from dragging the balloon at impossible speeds would be to move the ISS to approximately GEO orbit = altitude about 22,000 miles. That would take months with 10,000 ion engines of present design, but more powerful ion engines (or equivelent)may be available soon.
A resupply craft and crew transport craft would have to be developed for the ISS at GEO altitude and that may be as costly as going to the moon. The crew of the ISS at GEO would be subject to several times the radiation they experience at LEO.  Neil

Thank you both for your comments!  Roll Eyes

I have no problem conceding that what I don’t know about space could fill up the Internet! Grin

1. From what you are saying, some object must be at 22,000 feet +/-, to serve as a Space Elevator Station (SES).
2. How long it takes to move the ISS is not a factor, as the SE Ribbon will take years to develop anyway.
3, Of course the cost of relocating the ISS vs lifting a different object to 22,000 feet to serve as a Human Inhabitable SES (HI-SES) is a factor.
4. Also if humans "… at GEO would be subject to several times the radiation they experience at LEO" then any HI-SES and any SE carrying humans, would have to consider the radiation exposure problem.
5. While the functions (including maintenance) of a HI-SES could initially be automated (a less expensive and expansive NI-SES), eventually humans will want to travel into space and thus the need for a HI-SES.
6. The problem remains of how to connect a durable SE Ribbon between a HI-SES (or NI-SES) to a Earth Based SES (EB-SES).

 Ken  Smiley
7  Research / The Ribbon / Re: How do you get the 22000 mile long ribbon into space? on: April 20, 2008, 11:51:01 PM
The way to do this is:
  • 1. Liftport should buy the International Space Station when it is retired in a few years
  • 2. The ISS would be moved to the proper position to support the first space side elevator construction.
  • 3. Once in position, a small ribbon would be deployed towards Earth.
  • 4. The Earth end of the ribbon would be attached to a sub-space, solar powered, automated floating balloon.
  • 5. A platform on top of the balloon would contain a payload of elevators,  additional ribbons and serve as a temporary anchor point for the ribbons.
  • 6. A small elevator and pre-build ribbon would be attached to the first ribbon to lift additional ribbons to the ISS from the balloon.
  • 7. Once the upper space part of the ribbon is built to the correct diameter, a small ribbon would be deployed from the balloon towards Earth.
  • 8. Then a small elevator and additional ribbons would be attached to the Earth side ribbon to lift the additional ribbons to the balloon from Earth.
  • 9. Once the lower Earth side of the ribbon is built to the correct diameter, and anchored into position, the two sections would be joined and the balloon retired.
  • 10. The first payload of the completed space elevator, would be parts to resupply and/or replace the aging ISS and/or to build additional space platforms.

Your comments are welcomed. Please use the line numbers to refer to any part of the proposal. Thank you, Ken Gettys  Smiley

Attached:

Picture of the 146-foot-long HiSentinel™ stratospheric airship (reached an altitude of 74,000 feet).
From: http://www.swri.org/9what/releases/2005/Airship.htm 

And here is a link to a video clip of Sanswire's SAS-51 2007-12-13 Flight Two!

http://www.sanswire.com/sas51/sas51video20071220-2LR.htm

And lastly, a link to a pdf from Lockheed Martin about their High Altitude Airship (HAATM), an unmanned lighter-than-air vehicle!:
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/data/assets/7966.pdf
Pages: [1]
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.5 | SMF © 2006, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!

Login Form

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
October 08, 2008, 03:26:40 AM
Username: Password:
Login with username, password and session length

Forgot your password?