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Three Pronged Approach For The Ribbon
September 09, 2010, 06:39:22 AM *
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Author Topic: Three Pronged Approach For The Ribbon  (Read 800 times)
Whistler
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« on: March 25, 2010, 03:09:12 PM »

It seems to me that one of the main hurdles for the SE lies in the length of the ribbon. I've seen a few people suggest way stations along the way, thus breaking up the total length of the ribbon and allowing each segment to be more easily maintained. Of course there are a few major issues with this, mainly the extra weight this would put on the tether, thus reducing total possible load on the climber.

So what I'd like to suggest (for all to pick apart to its last detail) is the concept of having the one main ribbon broken into two segments, with one way station BUT the purpose of this station is to serve as an anchoring point for 2 other Space Elevator-esque ribbons to attach to. This would provide more support/lift for the main ribbon itself as well as compensating for the additional weight of the way station.

Another main hurdle this would pose is figuring out how the climber would transition from one ribbon to the next without the use of additional heavy equipment. Perhaps additional grippers can be used on the climber (a set at the top and a set at the bottom) so that bottom set can be used to push up far enough for the top set to grip the next ribbon. Admittedly I've not put a lot of thought into component of the idea.

Another potential benefit lies in offering additional stability to the ribbon proper (from the two ancillary ribbons at the side).

What are the main technical hurdles to this approach? And would having two smaller ribbons in close proximity to the main ribbon create too large a risk of tangling or other interference?
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neil
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« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2010, 09:26:50 AM »

Yes, tangling and rubbing are significant problems for two ribbons 10 meters apart at the way station. Wider means a sturdier way station with more mass and cost. If the length above the way station is 100,000 kilometers, this is a ten million to one ratio. The ribbons do diverge some what as we get further from Earth, but the tangling risk likely grows even faster as we get farther from the spacer = the way station.
You did not give an altitude for the way station, so let's try several numbers. Ten kilometers means the humans can work briefly with scuba gear breathing 99% oxygen. Much higher requires a full space suit, or oxygen feed directly into the blood stream, since lungs are not adequate. Has the latter been tried for pilots flying higher than ten kilometers?
About 20,000 kilometers, will give the way station about Mars gravity. 30,000 or 50,000? kilometers will give the way station moon gravity. A GEO altitude = 36,000 kilometers station has no weight and zero g = free fall. At present, GEO destinations seem likely for most payloads, but my guess is we will often want to launch from the far end of the ribbons, by the time the first space elevatior is completed. This allows destinations anywhere in the inner solar system with very little onboard energy, so a far end way station might be good.
Likely the first two or three space elevators will not be man rated = cargo and robots only, so way station may have little utility.   Neil
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Erik Nelson
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« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2010, 10:18:33 AM »

If the length above the way station is 100,000 kilometers

That's a significant fraction of the distance to the Moon.  If the Moon's tugs on the counterweights are considered, perhaps you can lift your largest loads at high tides (especially at Spring Tides).
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neil
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« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2010, 06:22:12 PM »

I don't think the moon's gravity helps much even at 300,000 kilometers above Earth's surface, as it is down hill for the climbers after they pass 36,000 kilometers altitude due to the centripetal force. The ribbon and counter weight will be moved horizontally by the moon, perhaps as much as one kilometer if the ribbon is very long. This will affect the throw direction of the payload significantly, but likely compensation is easy.
A way station at the counter weight is about 1g, More at 300,000 kilometers. Perhaps someone will calculate.   Neil
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