Rocket Power Sling
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Author Topic: Rocket Power Sling  (Read 15138 times)
windemut
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« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2007, 06:52:43 AM »


It is true, the exospheric helicopter has many of the same issues as the Aerovator, and is probably less rather than more viable, despite its smaller scale. Mostly, this is because the power requirement does not scale down much with size.

It is not true that subsonic lift is used by the Aerovator, lift is distributed over the entire structure at all speeds, mostly hypersonic. The propulsion is subsonic, though, via standard jet airplane engines. I have convinced myself, but not a lot of other people, that the Aerovator is actually more practical than the SE, due to a few key points: It is completely Earth based, is smaller, launches faster, has higher throughput, and can be made with near current materials (~6-10 GPa).

There once was a page on the Aerovator on Wikipedia. It was rightly removed because of the "no original research" policy. The Aerovator is now slowly fading from the Web, being replaced by a lawn care device of the same name. Here is what seems to be the last Wikipedia leech site that still has it online, unfortunately minus the pictures:

http://www.cassiopedia.org/wiki/index.php?title=Aerovator.

Get it while it lasts ... :-)

I have saved the source, perhaps one day I will upload onto a more suitable place.

Andreas
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A_M_Swallow
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« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2007, 07:16:37 AM »

It is not true that subsonic lift is used by the Aerovator, lift is distributed over the entire structure at all speeds, mostly hypersonic. The propulsion is subsonic, though, via standard jet airplane engines. I have convinced myself, but not a lot of other people, that the Aerovator is actually more practical than the SE, due to a few key points: It is completely Earth based, is smaller, launches faster, has higher throughput, and can be made with near current materials (~6-10 GPa).
(~6-10 GPa) is spider silk land.

I wonder if the 2008 Space Elevator Conference wants some papers?
The Aerovator by a different name may fit.
http://www.spaceelevator.com/archives/2007/07/2008_space_elev.html#more
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Andrew Swallow
hcm1955
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« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2007, 10:33:59 AM »

I got the lift concepts wrong for Aerovator. At any rate I agree that the Aerovator is more doable that a SE. Once a SE is in place it might be a better solution for GEO orbit where the Aerovator may be a better solution for other orbits.

I good place to put the Aerovator article is http://www.socialtext.net/wikinomics/index.cgi?elevator_to_space or at least a link to the  socialtext page

Bert
« Last Edit: July 09, 2007, 11:19:48 AM by hcm1955 » Logged
windemut
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« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2007, 01:20:35 PM »

The Aerovator by a different name ...
Oh no, the name stays. Let us not cower in fear before a mere lawn care device...

Andreas
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hcm1955
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« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2007, 02:46:54 PM »

Another concept along the same lines, using the idea of a motor to drive the tether http://www.spaceelevator.com/docs/iac-2004/iac-04-iaa.3.8.2.10.mckenzie.pdf
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hcm1955
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« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2007, 03:07:31 PM »

A small prototype of a rocket powered sling could be lifted in space with an amateur rocket similar to the GoFast rocket. This trajectory allows for at least 1 minute in space where the sling could deploy. Maybe a 1 ounce payload could be launched into orbit to demo the idea. The GoFast Rocket: http://www.ddeville.com/GoFast%20Maximum%20Altitude%20Press%20Release1.pdf

An operational version could use something like Scale Composites SpaceShip One, and launch maybe 100 pounds at a time. With one launch every two days that is more than 7 tones of fuel and water per year that can be delivered to orbit with this scheme.


Bert

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windemut
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« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2007, 09:33:01 PM »

Another concept along the same lines, using the idea of a motor to drive the tether http://www.spaceelevator.com/docs/iac-2004/iac-04-iaa.3.8.2.10.mckenzie.pdf

Interesting. If I read it correctly, though, they attach the payload to a resting tether and then spin it up, let go, and then spin it down. This is a huge waste of time and energy, because the tethers are much more massive than the payload. For a sling to work efficiently, it must be kept rotating continuously, and the payload let slide from the hub. Once the sling is initially spun up, the motor is then needed exclusively to replenish energy that was given to the payload, no more. What's better, a payload can be launched every few minutes, provided the motor power allows for it.

The sling works best when attached to something large, like an asteroid or a moon. If it is free flying, its orbit will be changed with each payload, and either propulsion or some very sophisticated juggling of payloads are needed to keep it from drifting away. In addition, a free flying sling also needs to be backed by a second, counterrotating sling to give the motor something to work against. I guess that's where the rocket drive comes in, but I am not yet convinced that a rocket powered sling will actually require less fuel then just a rocket.

Andreas
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hcm1955
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« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2007, 06:03:00 AM »

but I am not yet convinced that a rocket powered sling will actually require less fuel then just a rocket.

Actually until the math is done I am not sure if there is a fuel saving compare to a rocket. But if a liquid fuel rocket is use to spin up the sling then the mass of the fuel tanks and their contents need not to be spun up, hence less fuel should be used. The key point is that most of the system is reusable. With current ELVs less than 1% of the launch costs are attributed to propellent. 

Example: Atlas V 1st stage propellant costs (without strap on SRB)
LOX    220,000 Kg @ $0.20/Kg  :  44,000 USD
RP1       80,000 Kg @ $0.75/Kg :   60,000 USD

But a the cost of a signal launch is ~ 100 Million USD

I am only claiming that this approach is better that existing operating launch methods for small payloads, and can be deployed with current tech on a small scale.

Bert


« Last Edit: July 11, 2007, 06:10:22 AM by hcm1955 » Logged
Frank
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« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2009, 01:32:21 PM »


There once was a page on the Aerovator on Wikipedia. It was rightly removed because of the "no original research" policy. The Aerovator is now slowly fading from the Web, being replaced by a lawn care device of the same name. Here is what seems to be the last Wikipedia leech site that still has it online, unfortunately minus the pictures:

http://www.cassiopedia.org/wiki/index.php?title=Aerovator.

Get it while it lasts ... :-)

That link is dead but this one still works.  For now at least.
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hcm1955
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« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2009, 03:23:27 PM »

Also the Aerovator has been covered a book available on google books: http://tinyurl.com/qp5cjx

Cheers,
Bert
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