Questions for my Novel
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Amy Van Riper
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« on: January 10, 2009, 11:19:53 AM »

I posted this in my introduction post as well, but I wanted to make sure it got seen by as many people as possible, so I am placing it here too... probably where it really belongs anyway!  Thanks for any answer you all can provide!

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First, I must say WOW!  I have found some GREAT info here. I have only scratched the surface and have so much more to read.

I have hope that someone here (or many of you!) would be able to assist me with some information for the middle grade novel (for ages 8-12) that I am writing.  The book is tentatively titled "Dyson's Moon." 

I have been doing a great deal of research into space and lunar elevators because the concept is perfect for my novel.   Though I have been a fan of the space program since I was a child, I honestly do not have much technical knowledge in this area.  (Which makes writing a novel about it very difficult!)  I have a 9 year old son who has a dream of walking on the moon and a 6 year old daughter who - because she idolizes her big brother - has decided she wants to be a vetrinarian at the moon colony. And so it is for them that I write this book... and for all the kids who may read it, who might get excited about space exploration and colonizing the moon.

I am currently writing MY "future history" that leads up to the time in which my story takes place.  A permanent presence on the moon is in its 15th year. A fully functional lunar elevator has already been in use for about 10 years and a space elevator from earth has been in use for about 2 years.  My plan is to raise cargo and people via the space elevator and have them dock at a "space station."  There they will transfer to a shuttlecraft that will take them to a second "space station" that sits atop the lunar elevator.  They will then be lowered to the surface of the moon.

Since my story centers around three teens who go to the moon colony with their families as the first "non-astronauts" to live on the moon, the space elevator process must already be proven safe enough that NASA is allowing civilians to begin moving to the moon colony.  But, of course, I also need to be sure most (if not all) of the science and physics is right. If today, it works in THEORY, even if today we don't have the capability to achieve it, then it is good enough for the novel.  Because it is set in the future I have at least a little bit of leeway.

So... based on all that, here are a few questions...

1.  Given the technology that is required to make these elevators a reality, assuming best case scenarios (carbon nanotube ribbon can be created by say 2013 and full funding is available for all projects), what year would you say my book is set in?  The projected release date for my novel would be 2012, which would coincide well with the beginnings of a new mission to return to the moon. I don't want the story to be set too far into the future (so as to seem "just over the horizon" to the kids reading) but since I am dependent on factual history for my storyline as well (where we will/could be technologically, etc in 2012) I know I can't have all this happening in 2020 either.

2.  How long would it take for the ascent from Earth to the space station?

3.  How long would it take to transfer between space stations?

4.  How long would it take to descend to the moon?

Thank you for any help you can provide with these questions, and with any other information you feel I need to know.  If you have any links, books, etc that you would recommend, please let me know that as well.

Have a fantastic day!
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A_M_Swallow
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« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2009, 07:51:26 PM »

You can leave the space elevators at the top but it is nearly impossible to join them there.  In the case of the Earth elevator it is about 1 second every 24 hours.  Miss and watch both the Earth and the Moon disappear behind you.

The Earth Elevator's joining point is at GSO (Geostationary Orbit) height.  By adjusting the spacecraft's altitude the pilot can chase the elevator permitting a slow docking.
GSO has an altitude of approximately 35,786 km (22,240 miles)

The Earth Elevator climber will have a top speed of about 100 miles per hour straight up.
22240 / 100 = 222.4 hours or 9.26 days.  In practice the Earth to GEO trip will take longer because a lot of the trip is at 50 mph (miles per hour).

The joining point for the Lunar (Moon) Elevator is L1 or EML1 (Earth Moon the Lagrange point L1).  L1 is 56,000 km up from the surface.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_space_elevator
An L2 Lunar Elevator is possible but because it is on the wrong side of the Moon and being longer i.e. more expensive to build I doubt it will be built first.  L1 and L2 are good places to build spacestations.

15 years is too early for manned use of the Lunar Elevator.  It will still be too thin ( = tiny payloads) and take several months to climb.  The Earth Elevator will be built from carbon nanotubes but sections of the Lunar Space Elevator may be made from fibre glass mined on the Moon.

The time from GEO spacestation to L1 spacestation will depend on the rocket used.  An ion thruster rocket can take several months to make the trip, used for heavy cargo like buildings.  A chemical rocket takes 2 or 3 days.  A sling shot (no fuel) from the end of the elevators also take a couple of days.

Transport between the Moon's surface and L2 spacestation or GEO spacestation is likely to still use chemical rockets just to save time.  They may still use hydrogen or carbon propellant brought up from the Earth at very high cost.  Alternatively the rocket may use powdered magnesium and liquid oxygen, both of which can be extracted from the Moon.

Moon bases at the north and south poles are unlikely to be connected to the Lunar Elevator but there may be a monorail or cable car connection.

I suspect that somewhere along the line there will be laws banning carbon based and hydrogen based fuels on the Moon, those elements will be reserved for food and hygiene.

Have you seen the new Lunar Rovers NASA is working on?
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/constellation/main/desert_RATS.html

Power for the spacestations and Lunar Base is likely to come from a mixture of solar power and nuclear energy.  At the Lunar equator solar power does not work for 2 weeks out of every month.
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Andrew Swallow
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« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2009, 02:15:06 AM »

I think A_M_Swallow is correct in all those details, except it better not take more than a month for the thread laying climbers to reach the far end, other wise the ribbon is likely to be destroyed by a micro meteorite before it is strong enough to survive such a hit.
In theory the climber can release the ribbon at an altitude as much as 300,000 kilometer and pass the ribbon attached to the moon an hour later at very high speed. The ribbon attached to the Moon (and passengers) could not tolerate being grabbed by a high speed climber, so the climber needs to decelerate before attachment. If they miss, the climber can land gently on the moon's surface, if it has enough rocket fuel left. I'm not sure, but I think, we use less fuel and reach the moon's surface quicker and safer if we don't land on the moon ribbon. The climbing time of the ribbon attached to the Earth is 1000 hours, if the average speed is 300 kilometers per hour to an altitude of 300,000 kilometers. Early Earth ribbons will likely be about 1/3 that long (and 1/3 that speedy) making the transfer even less practical. (A longer Earth ribbon is very helpful going to Mars and beyond) We can have a low mass station at the end of the Earth ribbon and/or the moon ribbon, but they have little utility, and thus may not be built.
The ribbon attached to the moon will likely be less than 100,000 kilometers long. The ribbon attached to the moon is mostly useful for travel between moon and Earth-Moon L1. We may build it first as a prototype of the Earth attached ribbon, because the ribbon specs are much less demanding for a moon ribbon. I'm not convinced that a station at L1 has much utility near term.
Unless there is extreme urgency, construction of the Earth attached ribbon will begin about 2012, assuming someone announces the availability of large quantities of cheap CNT with great specs in 2009. I don't think all the details of construction have yet been finalized. A second Earth attached ribbon will be started about about 2014 and a third about 2015. The effort will be split three ways for the next two years, so by 2017 the first ribbon will be strong enough for a manned climber, assuming the first ribbon has not yet been destroyed by a micro meteorite. Likely it will have been damaged many times, and the patches will make it unsafe for humans. We will have learned much from the first two ribbons, so likely the third ribbon will be the first rated for humans about 2020. If one or more of the ribbons have been destroyed by 2020, we will likely be concentrating on getting a 4th and 5th ribbon built instead of transporting humans. Since lithium is lighter than magnesium it may be preferable for rockets that do not operate in Earth's atmosphere.   Neil
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A_M_Swallow
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« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2009, 09:13:40 AM »

L1 and L2 are likely to become staging points even if we do not build lunar space elevators.  They are convenient points to change from lunar landers to Earth reentry vehicles like Orion.  L2 will almost certainly acquire a communications satellite covering the far side of the Moon.  The centre of the Lunar space elevator at L1 would be a third function.

1000 hours is 41 days 16 hours.
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Andrew Swallow
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« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2009, 06:38:03 AM »

According to LiftPort's road map the first SE will not be operational until 2031.  While many dispute this as being much later than most predictions it would be well to note that according to the road map we are currently behind schedule.

Of course you are writing sci-fi so should feel free to be optimistic and put your story in the 2020s.

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neil
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« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2009, 12:20:45 PM »

Yes, I agree 2031 is a more likely date and 2017 is very optimistic. It will likely take a decade for CNT to be cheap and plentiful after it has great specs. Investors will lack enthusiasm for a first space elevator that needs 50 billion dollars worth of CNT. As the price of CNT falls to a few dollars per pound there will be thousands of competing applications such as cars, houses, tall buildings, power lines, high pressure tanks for hydrogen and CNG = compresseed natural gas. CNT may replace half of the world's use of steel concrete, asphalt, aluminum and lumber. Resent trends in opressive government could however might make the space elevator a high priority, so anything is possible.   Neil
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